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Post by bluejay4life on Jan 10, 2010 15:38:30 GMT -6
I was able to make it to the last game vs. Norman North, I have a few observations...
First: Parents/fans do not treat the basketball team with the respect they deserve. I counted 23 fans, and maybe 10 students in the stands for the Blue Jays. I travel to Guthrie regularly and I live down the road from McGuiness, it's not that far of a travel. If I was this team, I'd feel really insulted that my own hometown fans can't make the 30 minute drive down to Oklahoma City.
Second: BJ McDonald is kinda a beast. Spoke to him after the game. He spoke nothing but of team work. You can tell it was sincere and not repeating the normal dribble that comes out during interviews. He was named to the All-Tournament Team. Averaging 11.3 pts a game. He also had a double-double against Norman North, 12 pts 10 boards.
Third: Codee Gross looks like a very confident point guard. He manages the court well, very smart when he has the ball in his hands. I believe he's just a sophomore. (correct me if I'm wrong). He really controlled the tempo and kept Norman North from really turning it into a run and gun type of game. They really tried to push the tempo. Gross got back on the transition and was able to keep their PG's in check for most of the night.
Fourth: We really missed Kentrell Brothers during this tournament. I'm not saying he's the team, however, when you're missing a two year starter, it's big hole in the line-up. However, Coach P., and everyone was very impressed how the bench was able to step up.
Fifth: We are desperately in the need of a go-to scorer. Chris and I spoke about this last night after the game, we both agreed on it. We don't have someone that we've had in the past such as a Foster that we can just go to give us a little boost in scoring. Don't be shocked this season if you don't see a lot of 70-65 games. The Norman North is a very good gauge on how the games will play out if Guthrie is able to win. Keep it low scoring, allow your defense to keep you in ball games by getting stops. Hoping you can convert on the other team's mistakes. This team is very disciplined. Very obvious on the defensive end.
Sixth: Outside of McDonald and Gross, there were a LOT of just silly turnovers. I don't know if it's youth or just wanting to become that "scorer," others need to become smarter when they have the ball in their hands. I guess that comes with experience.
Example: With under a minute to go, Chauncey Dumas has the ball on the right wing, instead of just swinging it around, and keeping the clock running, he wants to penetrated and push the lead from 45-43 to, 47-43 or more.. However, he doesn't remember his fundamentals, and moves before he dribbles. He had a mismatch on his defender, and would have easily been able to either get fouled or an easy shot at the basket.
Now, on that, practice or experience will allow him to grow from that mistake. But that turned the ball over with 28.4 seconds left. Norman North got four shots off and really had a chance to tie the game.
I'm not blaming Dumas for our close game. There were plenty of mistakes that kept the game close. Because Guthrie had an 11 point lead at one point, and late in the third, we led 40-32. We just need to learn to score when some of our starters are resting.
That's just a few observations I made attending my first Guthrie boy's basketball game this season. I hope Tuesday's crowd is much more raucous when the #8 ranked El Reno Indians come to town.
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Post by bluejaytopfan on Jan 10, 2010 16:35:02 GMT -6
Codee Gross is a very confident guard that can shoot the ball. Dumas is Guthrie's go to scorer, whether you believe it or not.
bluejay4life-- With the Mcguiness Classic being your first game of attendance, I dont expect you to know who does what for the team. Dumas is without a doubt one of the most athletic and capable scorers on the team along with Brothers. I've attended every single game this year and have seen dumas in action. From my understanding he's averaged a double-double the past 3 or 4 games. You shouldn't go criticizing a player before you know how valuable they are to the team. He's done everything for the team this tournament and I'd just like you to know that.
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Post by bluejay4life on Jan 10, 2010 17:26:02 GMT -6
I'm allowed to put my opinion out there. Whether you agree with it or not. My opinion is still valid. However, I have followed the Blue Jays for a couple of years, plus my attending Guthrie sporting events when I wasn't playing sports when I went to Guthrie High, doesn't take anything away from me only seeing one game.
And Actually, Dumas just had one game above double digit points in the McGuiness Classic. He had 13 against Northwest Classen. Plus, I only criticized his decision making in the waning seconds of the game. He played well even though the box score didn't. You were there, you saw Schaefer basically doing what he pleased. He got any shot he wanted and Guthrie allowed him a GREAT look at the end to possibly win the game. I mainly spoke on how if he would have just been more conservative, he would have just been fouled and been put on the line with about 8-12 seconds to go in the game. Instead, it allowed Norman North a chance at the tie or win.
Now on whether or not Chauncey is this team's go to scorer, is something that could be up for debate. Just look at the tournament, BJ could get that title, he averaged 11.3, and I believe that Chauncey was something around 6 or 7 points a game. So, I hope I am wrong. But, stats are rarely misleading.
Just because I haven't been in attendance doesn't mean I don't know anything about this squad. Yeah, it's different team, I still know more you're lead to believe.
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Post by fballfan on Jan 10, 2010 18:34:22 GMT -6
To bluejay4life, what kind of person or you as an adult to attack a child. I don't appreciate you attacking my son and his name is spelled Chaunsey. I have been to all of the games, except 2 in Ardmore and every player (yes I said every player) have had silly turnovers and not just once. They have all missed easy layups and many other things. Everyone wants to be high scorer and it is not about who put up the most points. Its about teamwork. There are other games Chaunsey could have been high scorer, but he chose to be a good team player (which will carry you further in winning) and not be a selfish player and pass the ball to the open person, which some of the other players are finding that hard to do.
In reponse to your statement about Chaunsey. He does remember his fundamentals, but do every player use their fundaments they learned every single play, NO. If they did maybe we would be undefeated. If I remember, Chaunsey got the rebound that could have been rebounded by Edmond North and put back up for a score with a few seconds left in the game. We all know to well that fouls don't always get called either way.
You can't blame Chaunsey for our close games because there is five players on the court at a time and you can't name one person that does not make a silly foul, miss a easy layup, and how many get called for walking just to mention a few. Maybe the whole team can learn from practice and their mistakes, but even that doesn't mean you won't make a mistake again. Sometimes as adults, we don't know how to critique something or someone to where it is a positive thing. Chaunsey is always striving to get better playing varsity, unfortunately he only have this season to do that.
Chaunsey has always been naturally talented in every sport if he chose to play each one. He chose basketball because that is his love. Has he been giving the opportunity to get the experience and get better through high school like some of the other did, NO. He didn't get the chance to prove himself for reasons I will not mention. His Senior year he is finally getting some playing time and plays just as well as some that have been playing the past years. So don't fault him for mistakes, fault, him not getting the playing time to get the experience. The experienced ones make mistakes too, but they should not make mistakes like the ones not experienced, but they do. You know why, because we're all human and there is no perfect player. Maybe, if you had attended all the games you would have seen the mistakes they all made, yep, even the other ones too. Maybe, you should try to be more positive because the entire team make silly mistakes. At least this is Chaunsey's first year getting to really play, don't know the others reasons.
No, we don't have an experienced player like Donte' and Keaton that the majority of the scoring came from every game. Any player could have been on the floor with those two and Guthrie would still win because they were just that confident and experienced. However, if the entire team can put up points and win, we'll take it. If the entire team can play good defense, we'll take that to.
The team has to start playing more team ball if they want to be successful and they must be humble and honest toward each other. Since we have no dominate person like the past years, this has to be a team effort, or it will cost us. As adults we have to be careful what we say and how we say it or we can cause problems to a team. There is always room for improvement for each player on the team and they will probably continue to make mistakes. You know why? They are human.
Please, next time you chose to single out one player, single them all out, because each one made a mistake. Some were not, but they were called for it anyway. That's just the game of basketball.
Proud Mother of Chaunsey and Chelsey Dumas
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Post by bluejaytopfan on Jan 10, 2010 18:58:27 GMT -6
I believe Dumas had 10 pts the first game, 13 the next, and 6 the last due to an injury. You're very right about it being your opionion. THIS is my opionion. Dumas wasn't even guarding the Schaefer kid if that's what you're implying. Time after time, Dumas has created shots for the other players on the team. Anybody that comes to the games will tell you that. He could very easily be the leading scorer but him not being selfish will carry him further. According to the stats Dumas leads the team in points, rebounds, blocks, and assists. That's a pretty good accomplishment for his first year of getting some real varsity playing time.
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Post by bluejays5 on Jan 11, 2010 4:15:43 GMT -6
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Post by bluejay4life on Jan 11, 2010 11:23:13 GMT -6
On the name, sorry, I wa given wrong information.
Second, I singled out that out play, I'm not attacking him by any means. He had a solid game. I talked about that ONE INSTANCE. You parents are reading far too much into this. I said example. Had it been bj I would have used him as an example,
I'm glad you've been to the games. That was more or less for "fans." I know parents have always and will turn out for their kids. For the small amount that was there, Guthrie fans caused some loudness.
And bluejaytopfan, I wasn't implying that at Dumas was guarding Schaefer. I said the TO allowed for another opportunity.
And yeah that's your opinion, that's not my point. You basically have said that because I've attended one game this season, my opinion was wrong and basically meant squat.
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Post by bluejayfan on Jan 11, 2010 15:27:50 GMT -6
RE: Bluejay4life What?? You’ve only been to one game. You need to get to more games son. What’s the problem??
GO BLUEJAYS!!!
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Post by bluejay4life on Jan 11, 2010 18:15:40 GMT -6
My job was conflicting schedules. It required me to do a lot of traveling.
I will be at the next few games. I shouldn't have to travel again until late February, early March.
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Post by fballfan on Jan 11, 2010 18:32:18 GMT -6
Yes, I have always turned out to games for my kids. Some people do, some people don't. Some fans do, some fans don't. I will always defend and protect my kids if I feel they are being attacked by an adult in a negative way. As a parent, that is my job.
Example: Every single player made a mistake at that game, but you only mentioned one. From the time the game begin till the time the game is over, every mistake is crucial and that's what usually put you in close games at the end. For instance, the team as a whole miss too many free throws and layups. These can cost you the game. I remember last year one of our experienced players fouled the last few seconds of the game and the other team went to the line and made both shots and they beat us by one. But, that is just the game of basketball, it happens sometimes, even to the best of players, but you move on and get ready for the next game. You try not to make that mistake again, but unfortunately some where along the way we do.
If you are sincere and would like to offer my sons some good advice that will help them improve (because there is always room for improvement for everyone) , please tell them in person and show them what they are doing wrong. They are always open for suggestions that will help make them a better player, as long as its not going against what Coach P have told them to do. In no way are they perfect.
Let's be positive and supportive of the whole team and not cause separation amongst them. They have to play as a team and it's going to take every player to carry this team to victory. There is no more Donte' and Keaton that put up the biggest majority of the points. This team has to play together as one if they plan on going far. Can they do it? Yes, but it will be a team effort. GO BLUEJAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PROUD MOTHER OF CHAUNSEY AND CHELSEY DUMAS
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Post by bluejayfan on Jan 12, 2010 11:10:17 GMT -6
Mrs. Dumas,
Your boys are great athletes, and more importantly great respectable young men. You should be proud, and I would expect nothing less than you protecting them any way that you possibly can. On the other hand, I think a little personal criticism is good for any athlete at the high school level, especially if they have the ability to play at the next level. Just imagine how shocking it would be to open the sports page some day and read some scathing negative story about you when you have never experienced any negative feedback in written form. I bet bluejay4life’s comments just fuel the fire in Chaunsey and Chelsey. Don’t get me wrong, I would probably not be as dignified as you if someone ever said something about my kids.
I personally have no criticism for our Bluejays. I think they give 100% every time they step on the court. They all want to play to the best of their ability. Mistakes are going to happen in high school, college, & the NBA. The only thing you can expect from anyone is to try as hard as they can. Learn from your mistakes, and fight just as hard next time.
GO BLUEJAYS!!!!!
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Post by fballfan on Jan 13, 2010 1:36:28 GMT -6
Bluejayfan, thanks for the compliment. Especially, thanks for stating they are fine respectable young men. I have no problem with personal criticism, just a problem when only one person is criticized for a whole team's mistakes. Criticism can be good or it can be bad, depending on how it is delivered and how it is received. Fortunately, I have always been a person that negative remarks about myself have never bothered me.
I personally feel that in order for this team to win, they are going to have to play TEAM BALL all the time. Tonight, I felt the officiating wasn't the best, but even with that, too many missed layups, free throws and not passing the ball to the open man. In my house after every game, my boys always discuss what they could have done better to help the team and they point out their mistakes also, but it's in a positive way. You are so right, mistakes are going to happen to all, but especially to the ones that haven't had much playing time with varsity until this year. That is to be expected. You learn from it and move on and play harder.
Hopefully, Friday the Bluejays can go to Deer Creek and play team ball and get a WIN.
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Post by gsobserver on Jan 14, 2010 15:58:56 GMT -6
Bluejay4life, true you are entitled to your opinion but as am I and I must disagree with most if not ALL of your observations. I don't want to feed too far into this because I think u are getting undeserved attention but I feel the need to stand up for Guthrie's true fan base and the ONE athlete u decided to put in the negative limelight.
Just to jump start this conversation, I guess you failed to "observe" all that ice you drove by as you made your trip down the ROAD to get to this tourney??? The ice that still exists today. Did you forget about the ice storm in which people totaled cars and had cars towed to unknown places? Or the fact that the day or so before schools shut down due to the weather may have led some people to believe the tourney was canceled? I made it but that's beside the point =).
However, if you know anything about Guthrie, especially since you once lived here, you would know that they have a very large and loyal fan base. I've attended many away games were we outnumbered the home team's fans. I doubt you will find a player or a coach who will tell you the players lack support from their town whether it be the alumni, parents, family, friends, the aging senior citizens who turn out in their wheelchairs or with their canes, the student base who comes in mobs sporting referee shirts and/or chanting cheers, health institutions, and even those unaffiliated who just follow the bluejays from city to city.
I'm not going to single anyone out but I will tell you this if you attended more games you would know that stats can be misleading. Let's look at percentages: how many shots a player put up vs how many that player actually made.......
Kentrell was definitely missed but I think if Coach P would have put the right chemistry out there we could have beat McGuinness. I still don't understand why Chelsey Dumas is not getting the playing time he deserves. He may not put up the points but he makes a way for others to score and every point he doesn't make he takes to heart.
The way to deliver constructive criticism to anyone is to FIRST state a positive then deliver a way to fix the problem. Since you watched BJ and was able to deliver an abundant amount of praise, I'm positive there was an example of his you could've used instead of singling out a player you had no praise for.
As far as Chaunsey Dumas, I think his skill level is exceptional given the exposure he's had over the last few years. IMO, If the coaching staff would have worked with him and played him more to build upon the natural talent that he exuberantly reveals there would be no need to even mention Donte or Keaton because he could've been able to step into their shoes. The key word that everyone is posting is "EXPERIENCED" players, he is definitely not experienced but what he has is "natural." Coach P definitely dropped the ball on this player but now he's expecting him to pull tricks out the air.
"Outside of McDonald and Gross, there were a LOT of just silly turnovers." All I can say is you really need to attend more games. It's obvious who you came to see but due to your lack of attendance and ur bias comments, YOU "do not treat the basketball team (or BJ) with the respect they deserve."
No, I'm not relating to the Dumas' boys...I'm just an avid Blue Jay fan. I've attended enough games to know what could be happening with this team if time would've been invested. I'm not saying Chaunsey would've made the team but it would've made a heck of a difference.
For example at the El Reno game, I heard an El Reno parent of a starting player ask a Guthrie fan where the heck has this boy (Chaunsey) been. She talked about his skills, his jump, the blocks that he literally threw into the bleachers which almost hit her in the head. She went on to state how much tomfoolery we must have in our staff to have had this boy riding the bench. She couldn't believe it when they took Chaunsey out the game after his 2nd block in a row. Even El Reno's coach called a time out, he was tired of seeing his players balls get thrown across the court. Needless to say, El Reno scored back to back while he (Chaunsey) watched from the bench.
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Post by fballfan on Jan 14, 2010 17:30:52 GMT -6
Thanks GSOBSERVER for your praises for my son. I would also hope if you see something he is doing wrong you are able to tell him a positive way to make him better.
Next, I must defend Coach P on this. Chaunsey asked to be pulled out because he's playing with an LCL injury. I think Coach P was looking out for the best interest of his player and I appreciate that.
Please, everyone continue to support these BLUEJAYS!!!
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Post by bluejay4life on Jan 14, 2010 18:16:16 GMT -6
I haven't been replying because it's a lost cause to see the other side of the window. What I said is basically read, but never fully understood. It was never meant as an insult. You people are taking it way out of context.
one thing, I was speaking as my observation of my first game of the season. Sorry, I miss three games at ARdmore tourney.. didn't travel to western heights.. shawnee, noble, or the first two games of the McGuiness Classic. Did I say I was predicting the future for this team? I just feel like you're taking my observation from ONE GAME wayyy over board.
Batten down the hatchets, drop anchor, one guy said his opinion, oh no.. See, unlike the football team. I could have said this and it would have had no qualms about it.. But seriousness of basketball.. parents come out of the wood works. It's very trivial.
SEcond off, the roads weren't bad. Highway was fine, the 15 or so students that made it there pretty okay. Roads were fine. Temperature was above 0. It was actually 30 degrees with little or no wind for once. I actually didn't even wear one because I live so close to McGuiness.
And no, I don't know how "loyal the fan base is." I'm amazed at what it has become. That's why I was so disappointed for the game. I've seen fans travel in freezing rain to go watch football games, but not travel 30 minutes to watch your two time defending state champs? Give me a break. When I was in high school at Guthrie, the support was very lack luster. Basketball games were very much a drag and almost a "faux pas" to attend as a student. However, after the 2002 championship that changed. Actually, I would say the year before it changed. The upset win over Carl Albert in 2001 really kick started the football support. Yeah, people always came to the games, but it was never like it is now. Fans don't pile onto the other side because one side is so packed. All the Guthrie fans could fit on the home side. Sometimes teams, especially the CA's, Shawnee's, would match the fan base becuase it wasn't exactly "packed." Baseball support was non-existant. Same for the other spring sports.
I'll never forget, I saw more people at a wrestling match than at a varsity basketball game.
Actually for that game, stats don't lie. I spoke well of BJ because he won a spot on the all-tournament team. I was never fully negative of Chaunsey, had there been other moments that stuck in my mind from my notes, I would have definitely put it there.
Now, was I shocked he played so well against El Reno? I will say a little bit. After reading on here that he was previously injuried (I wasn't told about and wasn't aware of at all.) I think he played great. The shot blocking ability of the kid was phenomenal. I wish the video camera hadn't died for the boys game. It would have nice to seen that shot he knocked into the stands on Youtube.
my biased comments? Seriously? did you not watch the game. I'm sorry, one handed no look passes aren't really the norm for good high school basketball. That's a silly turnover. Not watching the passing lanes ahead of making your decision is a silly turnover, and it's also a slip up of the fundamentals. They teach you in basketball, know where your defenders are. If you're going to hit some guy on the back door. make sure you knwo where your trail guy is, and know where the five spot is. I played on a terrible basketball team at Guthrie, and I even know that.
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